Given the current rise in anti-Semitism, I'd like to push back on your explanation of why the genocide of Jews has more salience than that of Russians or others. You suggest it was that Jews were "Western," while "Western" civilization had long considered Jews other. The relevant point is that Jews were killed simply because they were Jews, while most war deaths, even of civilians, serve to further war ends.
Hi Mitch, this is a bit sensitive subject. I would first give you a lengthy answer but it would sound like I am trying to downplay what happened to European Jews.
What I meant to say is that Russia was the enemy after World War 2, and how many Russians died during the war is not even the footnotes when we talk about the war today. They weren't among the people the allied powers mourned for. This is expected, not critism. But shows our biased nature when we look at history.
That's fair, though in my opinion Jews were also considered an enemy by many people throughout the West, a situation that went underground for a generation or two following the Holocaust but that has now re-emerged. Anything that takes away from realizing the unique survivability of anti-Semitism is, I think, ill advised, though I understand your point about our ignorance of the sheer numbers of Soviets killed by Nazi Germany.
If we agree that antisemitism in Germany was caused, not in small extent, by the Jewish elites being rich and influential at the background of poor society, then nowadays we have a picture that bears some resemblance: the Jewish elites in the US colluding with the genocidal government politicians in Israel, at the background of huge wealth disparity in the US society and real genocide happening to Palestinians. Trump's ideas of building his hotels in the Palestinian territory after what remains of Palestinians is forced away certainly does not help, as he is colluding with the genocidal politicians.
Those Jews and Israelites do behave quite like those of the past in Germany, and then worse (in Germany Jews were not responsible of any genocide).
I understand that this is certainly not the only source of the current rise of antisemitism, and that for antisemites in the Western countries this is what they observe from away and not live through themselves.
Still, I suspect this is probably an important factor, even if not the only one.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. However, I want to clarify something.
When I refer to German Jewish elites who became the public face of the revolutionary movement, I’m not claiming they made a mistake, nor that they led the revolution that ended in disaster. I’m describing how many ordinary Germans perceived the situation at the time, including the belief that Jews were rich and largely unaffected by the economic collapse—a belief Hitler stresses in his book Mein Kampf. From my perspective, it isn’t relevant whether influential revolutionaries were Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish. Every individual represents themselves, not the demographic they belong to, even when someone believes they recognize a pattern. Correlation isn’t causation. One thing is safe to say: they were all Germans who wanted a better Germany, but were guided by little sensible strategy.
Hitler didn’t invent that ideology about German Jews. He stepped into beliefs that had been sold to him at some point as a young man, and he resold them more effectively than anyone else at the time. He wasn’t the author of those ideas—his tactics simply made him an exceptionally skilled reseller of the spirit of his time, tactics that might not have worked a decade earlier or later.
In other words, my point is about perception: how large segments of ordinary German society interpreted events when Hitler arrived on the scene. That perception is historically documented.
Combined with centuries-old Christian antisemitism—reinforced by figures like Martin Luther, who campaigned for violence against Jews—it created a perfect storm that had been building long before Hitler exploited it.
But you are right to provide clarification, and I was certainly not clear enough.
Living in a country that for a long time has had relatively wide antisemitic sentiments in the society (unfortunately including part of my own family), I am fully aware that to a very significant extent those sentiments are based on propaganda and perceptions, not on facts.
The current situation which I did mention is a mixture of both, certainly it is not only the one (facts) or only the other (non-factual sentiments).
Populist Israeli governments have increasingly behaved as if they represent all Jews, often framing criticism of state policy as an attack on Jewish identity and treating the Holocaust as a shield against accountability. This conflation blurs the line between historical atrocity, Jewish identity, and modern Israeli politics.
When those same governments then engage in actions many people find abhorrent, the association becomes automatic in the public mind. That reaction doesn’t come out of nowhere—it follows from years of messaging that equates Israel with Jews as a whole. The resulting antisemitism is human, predictable, and misguided—but it is also a foreseeable consequence of collapsing the distinction between a state, a people, and a historical tragedy.
I have no idea to what extent Jews were "elites" in pre-Nazi German society. What seems obvious to me is that when a society is failing to satisfy the needs of the large majority, the natural category to attack would be wealthy and powerful people, not some minority that is associated in people's perception with wealthy and powerful people. It also seems obvious to me that Jews have been attacked for being both "too rich" and "too poor" -- Cossacks hardly attacked peasant villages due to the Jews' excessive wealth. So I suspect that wealthy and powerful people divert a common-sense reaction from those who feel excluded to an alternate target, and anti-Semitism has always provided one. And, watching the reaction to the Jewish state's response to 1,200 murders and hundreds of kidnappings, I see the same anti-Semitism in the reaction.
This isn’t about what Jews actually did or what they believed. I was purely talking about public perception, which was already in place before Hitler even entered the scene, including the idea that Jews were rich and were still having an easy life while the entire nation was collapsing, on which Hitler also capitalized.
From my perspective, I couldn’t care less whether the revolutionaries were Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish. They were all from different walks of life, but everyone involved was certainly German.
As for Cossack attacks on Jews, at the time it was frequently Jews who were innkeepers (and leaseholders), and compared to the (really dirt poor) peasants, they were significantly richer in comparison (even if not reach in any real sense). This thing was (supposedly) causing Cossacks to treat them more like Polish land and property owners.
By the way, in towns many properties were owned by Jewish owners, which among poor Poles caused a lot of resentment. A very popular saying which summarized those sentiments was "Wasze ulice, nasze kamienice" ("Your streets, our townhouses"). Again, partially true, partially perspective.
I am not exactly sure what you mean exactly by "watching the reaction to the Jewish state's response to 1,200 murders and hundreds of kidnappings, I see the same anti-Semitism in the reaction", but as the "state's response" is genocidal murdering of about 70.000 people (including about 20.000) children, I hardly would call reaction to this as "anti-Semitism". Of course if the reaction is towards Israel as a state, the criminals in the government, and towards Jewish people who do not abhor these mass murders.
I will not debate the Hamas Israel conflict here, but simply express my conviction that Israel is not treated like any other country, and that the reason is clear to me.
Given the current rise in anti-Semitism, I'd like to push back on your explanation of why the genocide of Jews has more salience than that of Russians or others. You suggest it was that Jews were "Western," while "Western" civilization had long considered Jews other. The relevant point is that Jews were killed simply because they were Jews, while most war deaths, even of civilians, serve to further war ends.
Hi Mitch, this is a bit sensitive subject. I would first give you a lengthy answer but it would sound like I am trying to downplay what happened to European Jews.
What I meant to say is that Russia was the enemy after World War 2, and how many Russians died during the war is not even the footnotes when we talk about the war today. They weren't among the people the allied powers mourned for. This is expected, not critism. But shows our biased nature when we look at history.
That's fair, though in my opinion Jews were also considered an enemy by many people throughout the West, a situation that went underground for a generation or two following the Holocaust but that has now re-emerged. Anything that takes away from realizing the unique survivability of anti-Semitism is, I think, ill advised, though I understand your point about our ignorance of the sheer numbers of Soviets killed by Nazi Germany.
If we agree that antisemitism in Germany was caused, not in small extent, by the Jewish elites being rich and influential at the background of poor society, then nowadays we have a picture that bears some resemblance: the Jewish elites in the US colluding with the genocidal government politicians in Israel, at the background of huge wealth disparity in the US society and real genocide happening to Palestinians. Trump's ideas of building his hotels in the Palestinian territory after what remains of Palestinians is forced away certainly does not help, as he is colluding with the genocidal politicians.
Those Jews and Israelites do behave quite like those of the past in Germany, and then worse (in Germany Jews were not responsible of any genocide).
I understand that this is certainly not the only source of the current rise of antisemitism, and that for antisemites in the Western countries this is what they observe from away and not live through themselves.
Still, I suspect this is probably an important factor, even if not the only one.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. However, I want to clarify something.
When I refer to German Jewish elites who became the public face of the revolutionary movement, I’m not claiming they made a mistake, nor that they led the revolution that ended in disaster. I’m describing how many ordinary Germans perceived the situation at the time, including the belief that Jews were rich and largely unaffected by the economic collapse—a belief Hitler stresses in his book Mein Kampf. From my perspective, it isn’t relevant whether influential revolutionaries were Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish. Every individual represents themselves, not the demographic they belong to, even when someone believes they recognize a pattern. Correlation isn’t causation. One thing is safe to say: they were all Germans who wanted a better Germany, but were guided by little sensible strategy.
Hitler didn’t invent that ideology about German Jews. He stepped into beliefs that had been sold to him at some point as a young man, and he resold them more effectively than anyone else at the time. He wasn’t the author of those ideas—his tactics simply made him an exceptionally skilled reseller of the spirit of his time, tactics that might not have worked a decade earlier or later.
In other words, my point is about perception: how large segments of ordinary German society interpreted events when Hitler arrived on the scene. That perception is historically documented.
Combined with centuries-old Christian antisemitism—reinforced by figures like Martin Luther, who campaigned for violence against Jews—it created a perfect storm that had been building long before Hitler exploited it.
What I wrote is part perception, part fact.
But you are right to provide clarification, and I was certainly not clear enough.
Living in a country that for a long time has had relatively wide antisemitic sentiments in the society (unfortunately including part of my own family), I am fully aware that to a very significant extent those sentiments are based on propaganda and perceptions, not on facts.
The current situation which I did mention is a mixture of both, certainly it is not only the one (facts) or only the other (non-factual sentiments).
Populist Israeli governments have increasingly behaved as if they represent all Jews, often framing criticism of state policy as an attack on Jewish identity and treating the Holocaust as a shield against accountability. This conflation blurs the line between historical atrocity, Jewish identity, and modern Israeli politics.
When those same governments then engage in actions many people find abhorrent, the association becomes automatic in the public mind. That reaction doesn’t come out of nowhere—it follows from years of messaging that equates Israel with Jews as a whole. The resulting antisemitism is human, predictable, and misguided—but it is also a foreseeable consequence of collapsing the distinction between a state, a people, and a historical tragedy.
I have no idea to what extent Jews were "elites" in pre-Nazi German society. What seems obvious to me is that when a society is failing to satisfy the needs of the large majority, the natural category to attack would be wealthy and powerful people, not some minority that is associated in people's perception with wealthy and powerful people. It also seems obvious to me that Jews have been attacked for being both "too rich" and "too poor" -- Cossacks hardly attacked peasant villages due to the Jews' excessive wealth. So I suspect that wealthy and powerful people divert a common-sense reaction from those who feel excluded to an alternate target, and anti-Semitism has always provided one. And, watching the reaction to the Jewish state's response to 1,200 murders and hundreds of kidnappings, I see the same anti-Semitism in the reaction.
Hi Mitch,
This isn’t about what Jews actually did or what they believed. I was purely talking about public perception, which was already in place before Hitler even entered the scene, including the idea that Jews were rich and were still having an easy life while the entire nation was collapsing, on which Hitler also capitalized.
From my perspective, I couldn’t care less whether the revolutionaries were Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish. They were all from different walks of life, but everyone involved was certainly German.
As for Cossack attacks on Jews, at the time it was frequently Jews who were innkeepers (and leaseholders), and compared to the (really dirt poor) peasants, they were significantly richer in comparison (even if not reach in any real sense). This thing was (supposedly) causing Cossacks to treat them more like Polish land and property owners.
By the way, in towns many properties were owned by Jewish owners, which among poor Poles caused a lot of resentment. A very popular saying which summarized those sentiments was "Wasze ulice, nasze kamienice" ("Your streets, our townhouses"). Again, partially true, partially perspective.
I am not exactly sure what you mean exactly by "watching the reaction to the Jewish state's response to 1,200 murders and hundreds of kidnappings, I see the same anti-Semitism in the reaction", but as the "state's response" is genocidal murdering of about 70.000 people (including about 20.000) children, I hardly would call reaction to this as "anti-Semitism". Of course if the reaction is towards Israel as a state, the criminals in the government, and towards Jewish people who do not abhor these mass murders.
I will not debate the Hamas Israel conflict here, but simply express my conviction that Israel is not treated like any other country, and that the reason is clear to me.
This aligns with my thoughts. Great to know I am not alone.
Thank you, Alan!