Thanks for reading. The dating actually doesn't change the argument, though. There's no evidence for it, but even granting, for the sake of argument, that Abraham's stories predate Zoroaster by 1000 years, the ideas in question aren't in the early biblical material. Sheol in Genesis and the early prophets is just a shadowy underworld for everyone, righteous and wicked alike — no resurrection, no judgment day, no heaven/hell sorting, no named angels, no cosmic adversary running his own kingdom. Those concepts show up in Daniel, Zechariah, and the intertestamental literature, all written during or after the Persian period when Judean elites had been living under Persian rule for generations.
The comparison was never between early Genesis and Zoroastrianism. It's between the late, post-exilic material and the imperial religion that surrounded the people writing it.
The argument 100% make sense and I would indeed say Zoroastrianism had a large influence on the amplification on the concept of a messiah and the descriptions surrounding him. The reason I would say an influence on the amplification of this concept is because of the existence of Psalm 22. Which to me, is the first scripture alluding to a messiah and the way he would be looked at/punished.( 16 Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2022&version=NIV#fen-NIV-14221e] my hands and my feet.17 All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me.18 They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment. ) “Psalm 22 is a profound messianic psalm of David (approx. 1010–970 B.C.) that depicts extreme suffering followed by ultimate deliverance” this was well before Zoroastrianism and hence why I think they amplified the concept while Israel was under their rule. One could argue then being under Persian rule and the simple fact that their paths crossed and their cultures blended, learning about Zoroastrianism, and adopting, combining, and amplifying those beliefs with their own, was God’s way of saying “you two nations both believe and worship me, though in your own terminology and ways of making it make sense, and the general concepts are so similar I’m going to cross your paths and combine the ideologies into one going forward to grow and strengthening the nation of my people. (Which he knew would become Christianity) although some people obviously stuck with the original beliefs of both the original Zoroastrianists and Jews to this day
Also my argument would be for the concept of the messiah. I do think the concepts of heaven and hell, are again amplified concepts but heavily drawn from the Zoroastrianisms. I think modern Christians have a misinterpretation of what heaven and hell actually is 100%, but wisdom and knowledge is something gained over time. Maybe the lack of heaven/hell mentions in the OT was just that knowledge not being discovered yet. I see both sides and again think most people have the actual concept of what it is misconstrued. But hell, I’m human, I don’t even know the truth of the actual concept
This is an interesting bit of history. I knew about Daniel being influenced by the exile.
One open question is what happened after the first couple of centuries CE. Rabbinical Judaism seemed to mostly retreat from the dualism that was popular before the temple was destroyed, though vestiges remained. While Christianity as it settled into a set of dogma, seemed to have more fully embraced it.
For example, the Jewish scholars I have read claim that Satan as adversary and ruler over the earth is contrary to the Faith's traditions.
There is a book on my reading list about the history of Satan.
Zoroastrianism wasn’t around until the 6th century BCE. The stories of Abraham predate that by 1000+ years
Thanks for reading. The dating actually doesn't change the argument, though. There's no evidence for it, but even granting, for the sake of argument, that Abraham's stories predate Zoroaster by 1000 years, the ideas in question aren't in the early biblical material. Sheol in Genesis and the early prophets is just a shadowy underworld for everyone, righteous and wicked alike — no resurrection, no judgment day, no heaven/hell sorting, no named angels, no cosmic adversary running his own kingdom. Those concepts show up in Daniel, Zechariah, and the intertestamental literature, all written during or after the Persian period when Judean elites had been living under Persian rule for generations.
The comparison was never between early Genesis and Zoroastrianism. It's between the late, post-exilic material and the imperial religion that surrounded the people writing it.
— Tanner A.
The argument 100% make sense and I would indeed say Zoroastrianism had a large influence on the amplification on the concept of a messiah and the descriptions surrounding him. The reason I would say an influence on the amplification of this concept is because of the existence of Psalm 22. Which to me, is the first scripture alluding to a messiah and the way he would be looked at/punished.( 16 Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2022&version=NIV#fen-NIV-14221e] my hands and my feet.17 All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me.18 They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment. ) “Psalm 22 is a profound messianic psalm of David (approx. 1010–970 B.C.) that depicts extreme suffering followed by ultimate deliverance” this was well before Zoroastrianism and hence why I think they amplified the concept while Israel was under their rule. One could argue then being under Persian rule and the simple fact that their paths crossed and their cultures blended, learning about Zoroastrianism, and adopting, combining, and amplifying those beliefs with their own, was God’s way of saying “you two nations both believe and worship me, though in your own terminology and ways of making it make sense, and the general concepts are so similar I’m going to cross your paths and combine the ideologies into one going forward to grow and strengthening the nation of my people. (Which he knew would become Christianity) although some people obviously stuck with the original beliefs of both the original Zoroastrianists and Jews to this day
Also my argument would be for the concept of the messiah. I do think the concepts of heaven and hell, are again amplified concepts but heavily drawn from the Zoroastrianisms. I think modern Christians have a misinterpretation of what heaven and hell actually is 100%, but wisdom and knowledge is something gained over time. Maybe the lack of heaven/hell mentions in the OT was just that knowledge not being discovered yet. I see both sides and again think most people have the actual concept of what it is misconstrued. But hell, I’m human, I don’t even know the truth of the actual concept
Great article btw. I enjoy your work.
This is an interesting bit of history. I knew about Daniel being influenced by the exile.
One open question is what happened after the first couple of centuries CE. Rabbinical Judaism seemed to mostly retreat from the dualism that was popular before the temple was destroyed, though vestiges remained. While Christianity as it settled into a set of dogma, seemed to have more fully embraced it.
For example, the Jewish scholars I have read claim that Satan as adversary and ruler over the earth is contrary to the Faith's traditions.
There is a book on my reading list about the history of Satan.
What are your thoughts on all this?