The case against Pauline authorship was built by Catholic priests and Protestant seminary professors, and it's been sitting in standard reference works for half a century.
Clement, who would become Pope, wrote that Paul was martyred under the prefects, which would mean after Nero committed suicide and before Galba became Emperor. That would be in June, 68 CE.
Philippians may have been reduced rather than composed of fragments. The names hang together. The Household of Caesar was the agency responsible for the finances of the Roman Army. Epaphroditus would have been a member of that agency, if not its head. Philippi was a major Roman military base. Clement would go on to become the Pope. Perhaps the missing pieces of Philippians mentioned Nero, and not in a bad way? Epaphroditus pays Paul his service. Was Paul on Nero's payroll?
Paul is called a tent maker, but perhaps tent seller is more accurate, and his biggest customer would have been the Roman Army. He was friends with Priscilla and Aquila, Jewish tent makers who were expelled by the Emperor Claudius from Rome. Aquila is an odd name for a Jewish man, because it happens to be the Latin word for the totem of a Roman Legion. But it is a good name if you are selling tents to the legions.
The consensus on some of the Pauline letters being forged does what to the insistence by fundamentalists that the Bible is without error because everything in it was guided by the hand of god?
How convenient for the Church to continue its tradition of discrimination against women without any fear they will be forced to reassess their position based upon knowledge of Paul’s letter forgeries. It’s as though 6 letters have no relevance.
And how convenient that the pathetically weak Christian establishment continues to keep mum on the subject and allows the status quo to remain in effect. Although a select few may occasionally speak out on the matter, nothing is ever overturned, and the ban on female leadership in the Church drags on.
Seems the Church is an expert in crisis avoidance all the way through antiquity, straightaway into modern times.
What exist today as bible & or versions of the bible are not dependent on knowing when or even who exactly wrote & or scribed which letters or not….
Either God did not think it importaint enough to get the doctrines in the supposed forged books correct or the doctrines in them accurately reflect sound doctrine (regardless of who exactly scribed or wrote them) and as such to be taken in concert with not in spite of the books.
God may yet hold you all accountable for doctrines he never preserved or allowed to be preserved inaccurately but what difference would anything make if that happened??….Thus you are responsible for what you do have not for all the “likely” uncertainties about details no cne can ever know with absolute certainty. Even valid speculations only carry the weight of speculations in spite of the primacy of the text existance & persistence through what we do know and have had set before us.
Fundimentaly most critisisims of sound doctrine come from two basic “forces” at work.
1) DELUSIONS FROM GOD, presents truth in a way that allows thoes who are “hell bent,” on denying or conforming it to their own ideas & truth, just enough wiggle room to make excuses & still condem themselves in the process This is why so many things appear to have “good arguments” for both sides, untill you peal the onion carefully if you can.
2) DELUSIONAL REASONING OF MAN Inverting the DIRECT & SPECIFIC DESCRIPTIONS, replacing with "possible inferences", obscure extropolations & refashioning God & His words into "Incomprehisable", absurdities of “true faith”.
Its only the strong delusions God promised to send to damn you all that most perceive in the text and based on thoes many traditions have taken shape & hold making the words of God of no effect & inverted 180⁰ from the truth.
PRESERVATION IS / WAS A GOD FUNCTION NOT A “ACHIEVEMENT BY GREAT MEN OR (INSTITUTIONS) OF GOD
People have no absolultly clue what the gospel is but they argue about translations. If people knew what the message was they wouldnt be arguing nonsense over most translations or "who gave us this book" because all the people that lay claim to its preservation obviously had no idea what it is they preserved
GOD USED THE VERY PEOPLE (THAT WERE SO WICKED HE DESTOYED THEM ALL) TO “PRESERVE THE SCRIPTURES…. NAMELY ISREAL. …. THAT FACT DID NOT VALIDATE THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS NOR THEIR “AUTHORITY” IN INTERPRETATIONS …. THEY UNDERSTOOD THEM SO WELL THAT THEY REJECTED & KILLED THEIR OWN MESSIAH……. PHYSICAL INSTITUTIONS DO NOT VALIDATE THE TRUTH OR INTERPRETATIONS ….
God never promised a infalable book for His people. Nor is Jesus who is the word a bible!?! However, his message is found in the writtings and compilations of the writtings of various men some greater then others. Gods preservation is not an accomplishment of man NOR does it require infalable books sent down from heaven floating on a cloud of infalability. God is smart enough to preserve his message within the pages of compilations & writtings of mere mortals.
if someone had been rewriting & trying to preserve a fake or random word of God, they obviously had no idea what they created with the Bible we do have. Because, what we have is clearly 180⁰ from what IS taught, practiced & or even widely known.
preservation of scripture is a GOD FUNCTION not a human achievement through time with men of unknown righteousness or position wrt to Gods favor..
HISTORY & “AUTHORITY” IS NOT WHAT VALIDATES TRUTH….. LIKE A JIGSAW PUZZEL A BLIND MAN CAN PUT TOGETHER CORRECTLY & KNOW ITS TRUE WITHOUT “AUTHORITY” TO TELL HIM BRCAUSE THE ONE CORRECT SOLUTION IS INTRINSIC TO THE PUZZLE NOT THE ONE PUTTING IT TOGETHER OR ANY OUTSIDE “AUTHORITY” ……..
Clement, who would become Pope, wrote that Paul was martyred under the prefects, which would mean after Nero committed suicide and before Galba became Emperor. That would be in June, 68 CE.
Philippians may have been reduced rather than composed of fragments. The names hang together. The Household of Caesar was the agency responsible for the finances of the Roman Army. Epaphroditus would have been a member of that agency, if not its head. Philippi was a major Roman military base. Clement would go on to become the Pope. Perhaps the missing pieces of Philippians mentioned Nero, and not in a bad way? Epaphroditus pays Paul his service. Was Paul on Nero's payroll?
Paul is called a tent maker, but perhaps tent seller is more accurate, and his biggest customer would have been the Roman Army. He was friends with Priscilla and Aquila, Jewish tent makers who were expelled by the Emperor Claudius from Rome. Aquila is an odd name for a Jewish man, because it happens to be the Latin word for the totem of a Roman Legion. But it is a good name if you are selling tents to the legions.
Are you suggesting Aquila was "passing". LoL
The name really does invite it. Good instinct to ask.
Aquila is feminine, so the Roman soldiers would have seen him as a foreigner.
Really enjoyed this. The Clement dating point (after Nero's suicide, before Galba) is one I hadn't seen laid out that plainly before.
The trouble is modern Christianity is herded towards Pauline doctrine which often differs substantially from what Yeshua and James intended
The consensus on some of the Pauline letters being forged does what to the insistence by fundamentalists that the Bible is without error because everything in it was guided by the hand of god?
Paul, poor guy. Just trying to keep people alive. Figuring out how to work this belief system around the religions of Rome. Dangerous territory.
Required flexible thinking which never translates well Into doctrines, dogmas, and serviceable assets. Sometimes can pass for a creed though.
Selah
They are part of the reasons that Chris said depart from me I never knew you… Truth is coming out at last… thank you
How convenient for the Church to continue its tradition of discrimination against women without any fear they will be forced to reassess their position based upon knowledge of Paul’s letter forgeries. It’s as though 6 letters have no relevance.
And how convenient that the pathetically weak Christian establishment continues to keep mum on the subject and allows the status quo to remain in effect. Although a select few may occasionally speak out on the matter, nothing is ever overturned, and the ban on female leadership in the Church drags on.
Seems the Church is an expert in crisis avoidance all the way through antiquity, straightaway into modern times.
What exist today as bible & or versions of the bible are not dependent on knowing when or even who exactly wrote & or scribed which letters or not….
Either God did not think it importaint enough to get the doctrines in the supposed forged books correct or the doctrines in them accurately reflect sound doctrine (regardless of who exactly scribed or wrote them) and as such to be taken in concert with not in spite of the books.
God may yet hold you all accountable for doctrines he never preserved or allowed to be preserved inaccurately but what difference would anything make if that happened??….Thus you are responsible for what you do have not for all the “likely” uncertainties about details no cne can ever know with absolute certainty. Even valid speculations only carry the weight of speculations in spite of the primacy of the text existance & persistence through what we do know and have had set before us.
Fundimentaly most critisisims of sound doctrine come from two basic “forces” at work.
1) DELUSIONS FROM GOD, presents truth in a way that allows thoes who are “hell bent,” on denying or conforming it to their own ideas & truth, just enough wiggle room to make excuses & still condem themselves in the process This is why so many things appear to have “good arguments” for both sides, untill you peal the onion carefully if you can.
2) DELUSIONAL REASONING OF MAN Inverting the DIRECT & SPECIFIC DESCRIPTIONS, replacing with "possible inferences", obscure extropolations & refashioning God & His words into "Incomprehisable", absurdities of “true faith”.
Its only the strong delusions God promised to send to damn you all that most perceive in the text and based on thoes many traditions have taken shape & hold making the words of God of no effect & inverted 180⁰ from the truth.
PRESERVATION IS / WAS A GOD FUNCTION NOT A “ACHIEVEMENT BY GREAT MEN OR (INSTITUTIONS) OF GOD
People have no absolultly clue what the gospel is but they argue about translations. If people knew what the message was they wouldnt be arguing nonsense over most translations or "who gave us this book" because all the people that lay claim to its preservation obviously had no idea what it is they preserved
GOD USED THE VERY PEOPLE (THAT WERE SO WICKED HE DESTOYED THEM ALL) TO “PRESERVE THE SCRIPTURES…. NAMELY ISREAL. …. THAT FACT DID NOT VALIDATE THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS NOR THEIR “AUTHORITY” IN INTERPRETATIONS …. THEY UNDERSTOOD THEM SO WELL THAT THEY REJECTED & KILLED THEIR OWN MESSIAH……. PHYSICAL INSTITUTIONS DO NOT VALIDATE THE TRUTH OR INTERPRETATIONS ….
God never promised a infalable book for His people. Nor is Jesus who is the word a bible!?! However, his message is found in the writtings and compilations of the writtings of various men some greater then others. Gods preservation is not an accomplishment of man NOR does it require infalable books sent down from heaven floating on a cloud of infalability. God is smart enough to preserve his message within the pages of compilations & writtings of mere mortals.
if someone had been rewriting & trying to preserve a fake or random word of God, they obviously had no idea what they created with the Bible we do have. Because, what we have is clearly 180⁰ from what IS taught, practiced & or even widely known.
preservation of scripture is a GOD FUNCTION not a human achievement through time with men of unknown righteousness or position wrt to Gods favor..
HISTORY & “AUTHORITY” IS NOT WHAT VALIDATES TRUTH….. LIKE A JIGSAW PUZZEL A BLIND MAN CAN PUT TOGETHER CORRECTLY & KNOW ITS TRUE WITHOUT “AUTHORITY” TO TELL HIM BRCAUSE THE ONE CORRECT SOLUTION IS INTRINSIC TO THE PUZZLE NOT THE ONE PUTTING IT TOGETHER OR ANY OUTSIDE “AUTHORITY” ……..
- CAVATE EMPTOR