So it was all planned out? The other 11 apostles scattered so they could continue Jesus idealisms,and Judas bore the brunt as witness as instructed by Jesus. Am I correct so far? Curious what happened after with Judas?
The "it was all planned" angle comes straight from the Gospels themselves. John has Jesus hand Judas the bread and tell him to go do what he's going to do quickly, which reads less like betrayal and more like a cue. The whole arrest sequence is presented to us as fulfilling scripture, which means the authors needed a betrayer for the story to work.
And think about the psychology for a second. If you spent years following a man you believed was the Messiah, love wouldn't be the only thing you felt. You'd fear him too. Nobody betrays a man to his face when they believe he could kill them on the spot with a word. Certainly not for four months' salary. So the only way Judas walks into that garden with armed men is if he already knows Jesus wants to surrender, and knows the arrest can only happen because Jesus permits it. On that reading, Judas isn't selling anyone out.
On the scattering, the Bible attributes it to fear. But your explanation holds up too. Men fleeing in panic and men dispersing to keep the message alive would look exactly the same to an outside observer. It could even be that Jesus told them to scatter for their own safety before the arrest.
As for Judas afterward, suicide fits the emotional arithmetic. Following an order from the victim doesn't spare you the guilt over what the order caused, especially if you never grasped it would end in your leader's death. Matthew tells that exact story: Judas is seized by remorse, hurls the silver back into the temple, and hangs himself. That's the version of a man who thought he was playing his part and only saw the price when the curtain came down.
I've read different endings for Judas. One suicide,another terminal abdominal disease and run over by chariot. Doesn't really matter I suppose as he fulfilled his obligation. I really enjoy reading your column and have decided to upgrade.
Three deaths for one man tells you the early church knew Judas had to die badly but nobody had a reliable account of how, so each writer supplied an ending that fit his theology. Matthew wanted remorse, Luke wanted divine judgment, and Papias, the source of the disease version, wanted spectacle.
And thank you for your decision to upgrade, that means a lot. I'm glad my posts land.
And ... if gJohn can be trusted (I don't think so), the arresting officials were accompanied by a Roman cohort. Romans wouldn't have bothered with a finger man. They would have arrested the whole lot and taken them to a secure place and used "enhanced interrogation" techniques to determine who was who, aka they would have beaten the bejesus out of them. Then they would have nailed the lot up because they were all co-conspirators, no?
You're right that it makes more sense for the Romans to arrest the whole group, not just Jesus. If you want to weed your yard, you have to pull everything, otherwise the weeds grow right back. Rome understood this. When they crushed movements, they didn't stop at the leader. On that reading, the disciples must have fled on Jesus' order before Judas arrived with the armed men, because staying in that garden meant a sword at best and a cross at worst.
The Jewish church in Jerusalem, founded by Jesus's disciples, kept kosher and observed Yom Kippur. We know this because the gentile church fathers complained about it in writing. So Jesus's disciples didn't believe Jesus died for our sins. They did believe in his resurrection, but their belief was more likely influenced by Enoch. They thought he would return soon and start the process of preparing for the Millennium (which we are in now, per Enoch). It's not clear that there was a historical Judas Iscariot.
Great stuff, thanks. I always thought that "one of you will betray me", spoken in the future tense and not past tense, was an order to his most faithful disciple. Without Judas, there's no Christ, only Jesus.
So it was all planned out? The other 11 apostles scattered so they could continue Jesus idealisms,and Judas bore the brunt as witness as instructed by Jesus. Am I correct so far? Curious what happened after with Judas?
The "it was all planned" angle comes straight from the Gospels themselves. John has Jesus hand Judas the bread and tell him to go do what he's going to do quickly, which reads less like betrayal and more like a cue. The whole arrest sequence is presented to us as fulfilling scripture, which means the authors needed a betrayer for the story to work.
And think about the psychology for a second. If you spent years following a man you believed was the Messiah, love wouldn't be the only thing you felt. You'd fear him too. Nobody betrays a man to his face when they believe he could kill them on the spot with a word. Certainly not for four months' salary. So the only way Judas walks into that garden with armed men is if he already knows Jesus wants to surrender, and knows the arrest can only happen because Jesus permits it. On that reading, Judas isn't selling anyone out.
On the scattering, the Bible attributes it to fear. But your explanation holds up too. Men fleeing in panic and men dispersing to keep the message alive would look exactly the same to an outside observer. It could even be that Jesus told them to scatter for their own safety before the arrest.
As for Judas afterward, suicide fits the emotional arithmetic. Following an order from the victim doesn't spare you the guilt over what the order caused, especially if you never grasped it would end in your leader's death. Matthew tells that exact story: Judas is seized by remorse, hurls the silver back into the temple, and hangs himself. That's the version of a man who thought he was playing his part and only saw the price when the curtain came down.
I've read different endings for Judas. One suicide,another terminal abdominal disease and run over by chariot. Doesn't really matter I suppose as he fulfilled his obligation. I really enjoy reading your column and have decided to upgrade.
Three deaths for one man tells you the early church knew Judas had to die badly but nobody had a reliable account of how, so each writer supplied an ending that fit his theology. Matthew wanted remorse, Luke wanted divine judgment, and Papias, the source of the disease version, wanted spectacle.
And thank you for your decision to upgrade, that means a lot. I'm glad my posts land.
And ... if gJohn can be trusted (I don't think so), the arresting officials were accompanied by a Roman cohort. Romans wouldn't have bothered with a finger man. They would have arrested the whole lot and taken them to a secure place and used "enhanced interrogation" techniques to determine who was who, aka they would have beaten the bejesus out of them. Then they would have nailed the lot up because they were all co-conspirators, no?
You're right that it makes more sense for the Romans to arrest the whole group, not just Jesus. If you want to weed your yard, you have to pull everything, otherwise the weeds grow right back. Rome understood this. When they crushed movements, they didn't stop at the leader. On that reading, the disciples must have fled on Jesus' order before Judas arrived with the armed men, because staying in that garden meant a sword at best and a cross at worst.
The Jewish church in Jerusalem, founded by Jesus's disciples, kept kosher and observed Yom Kippur. We know this because the gentile church fathers complained about it in writing. So Jesus's disciples didn't believe Jesus died for our sins. They did believe in his resurrection, but their belief was more likely influenced by Enoch. They thought he would return soon and start the process of preparing for the Millennium (which we are in now, per Enoch). It's not clear that there was a historical Judas Iscariot.
Great stuff, thanks. I always thought that "one of you will betray me", spoken in the future tense and not past tense, was an order to his most faithful disciple. Without Judas, there's no Christ, only Jesus.